EPC of Electricity only properties

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    #16
    Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
    Had 3 houses Highland Scotland with ok EPC's , now only 1. No gas within 46 miles.
    How did you manage that?

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      #17
      Originally posted by LordSuch View Post

      How did you manage that?
      External insulation on outside walls (Scottish government/energy company initiative) with underfloor insulation - zero cost, bonkers, full double glazing and doors, low energy lightbulbs, storage rads (some from 60's) on E7 then used 2 different EPC companies. 2nd one much better rating.

      External insulation caused problems selling 2nd one, 2 story semi, need EWS1 form, more than £1k, for purchaser's lender.

      Drove past old monster raving looney party van yesterday (lord Such).
      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

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        #18
        Originally posted by Kape65 View Post
        There should be very little surplus with wind farms. They just switch them off if the power is not needed.
        Anything generated more than demand is a surplus, and currently at night it's huge. Thankfully greater storage capability coupled with on demand pricing means most can be used. We will see an increasing use of night rate energy not less.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Section20z View Post

          Anything generated more than demand is a surplus, and currently at night it's huge. Thankfully greater storage capability coupled with on demand pricing means most can be used. We will see an increasing use of night rate energy not less.
          All good things come at a cost. That will doubtless be associated with more severe and lethal house fires as people run washers, driers and other stuff overnight while they sleep.

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            #20
            Originally posted by Kape65 View Post
            There should be very little surplus with wind farms. They just switch them off if the power is not needed.
            In theory...but in reality it costs US(the billpayers) money to turn off wind farms. Generators are given "constraint payments" as compensation by National Grid if asked to decrease generation. The generators bid for the payment they want to decrease output, and the lowest bidder wins. Over a year the total of the payments average around 30-35 million, which adds a few pence a year on everybody's bill

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              #21
              Originally posted by Section20z View Post

              Anything generated more than demand is a surplus, and currently at night it's huge. Thankfully greater storage capability coupled with on demand pricing means most can be used. We will see an increasing use of night rate energy not less.
              There are no incentives for electricity companies to make money out of saving supply costs by shifting demand, especially when they are likely to make much more money out of selling electricity generated by their power stations (or in receiving constraint payments for their power plant NOT to produce energy).
              New technologies (like smart meters that turn on washine machines in periods of low demand) are being piloted to help reduce constraint payments by spreading out the UK’s electricity usage so that it’s not concentrated in peak periods. If schemes to get people to change their usage habits (such as washing when it's windy) are successful, off-peak will cease to exist.

              Add to that the fact of utilities importing cheaper energy from mainland Europe via interconnectors - with more interconnectors being added. UK utilities have to pay transmission charges to National Grid (expensive for off-shore projects), while imported electricity is exempt from charges, making UK suppliers uncompetitive - they need to reduce consumer prices but still claw the money back somehow.

              Plus, our infrastructure is old and often does not have interconnector capacity, which stops energy being sent where demand is highest, while large scale electricity storage would need MASSIVE investment. Also withdrawal from EU may block Britain's access to the internal energy market (IEM) - a near real-time pricing mechanism where capacity and electricity prices are allocated simultaneously. Capacity would have to be booked in advance, making it more difficult to predict prices ahead of time, meaning power will flow from expensive markets to cheap ones, and trades will suffer from being uneven. Inevitably prices would rise unless UK gets it's arse in gear to support it's home energy sector by removing transmission charges for UK operators, or charging a tariff on imports.

              With all that going on do you honestly think reduced night tariffs are here to stay?

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                #22
                Unless electricity costs drop by at least a third and the whole basis of assessing EPCs is revised, then I think politically E7 or something similar would have to remain. There would be too many people in fuel poverty otherwise and with redundant storage heaters in their homes, especially the elderly in retirement properties.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by DPT57 View Post
                  Unless electricity costs drop by at least a third and the whole basis of assessing EPCs is revised, then I think politically E7 or something similar would have to remain. There would be too many people in fuel poverty otherwise and with redundant storage heaters in their homes, especially the elderly in retirement properties.
                  Depending on supplier, around 13%-15% of electricity prices already cover warm home grants, feed-in tariffs for renewables and ECO schemes

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                    #24
                    We have a brand new conversion of a Police Station into 67 flats (Constable Court) just down the road from us, electric heating. Just gone on the market - EPC D, potential D! In 8 years these will be illegal to rent under current proposals - how ridiculous is that!

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                      My own home is D and if I do everything suggested on my EPC I would achieve D.

                      The four things suggested include a wind turbine.
                      Install the wind turbine and export your own economy 7 electricity!

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by LordSuch View Post

                        With all that going on do you honestly think reduced night tariffs are here to stay?
                        Until such time as factories, schools, trains, offices, gyms etc are running at 3 in the morning then obviously, Yes.

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                          #27
                          So you can understand my bias, I am a director in a building company and we have looked at this issue quite closely.

                          First, I don't think gas is going to go away anytime soon. Cadent is looking at mixing gas with hydrogen up to 40% in order to reduce the carbon footprint of gas (how is hydrogen made at the moment,...by burning lots of fossil fuels of course!) Hydrogen is a very small particle and highly flammable so leaks are really not good, but we do have a billion pound gas infrastructure which no one will want to abandon, at least in the short term. That said, having worked in the 'renewable' area too, I am going to give a guess that gas will eventually receive lower EPC ratings to incentivise the removal of gas heating, unless some other recyclable gas is introduced such as sewerage waste or some such. Most, if not all, new houses will be fitted with ASHP (from 2025?) and will run underfloor wet heating throughout the house. They may also have solar photovoltaic panels and battery storage too (large housing associations are retrofitting ASHP and panels alongside battery storage). There are other electric heat battery (storage) devices like Sunamp which heat water but I think these are fringe technologies and will not necessarily take off as they need a constant electrical power. E7/10 will probably cease over the next few years as has been stated above.

                          ASHP is currently much more expensive than a gas boiler £10,000 versus £3,000 for our 5 bed houses. My guess (hope) is that the price will fall dramatically once all new houses are fitted with them. Another route we looked at was a small ASHP for the hot water production and infra-red panels for heating but because of the way people will probably use them (left on constantly), I am reliably informed, them they will probably not be given a good EPC write up, the running costs will be high.

                          Politically it is difficult to see how Councils, with limited cash, will change their housing stock away from storage heaters which most have, I am told.

                          My advice would be to install ASHP because it will endure any future changes. Don't fit thermostats in the flat merely run the heatcurve correctly on the machine. You would have to balance it of course. Costs of running will be low (the tenants will like that) but the installation will be costly, ASHP plus piping and new radiators. Your EPC will be high then probably be a 'C' given that you have good insulation etc. You will also have the problem of where to put the air handling unit. They flood the area below them when they run their defrost cycle so I do not advise that you fix them to a wall.

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                            #28
                            Doesn't sound practical in a Victorian Terrace

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                              #29
                              Victorian terraces: I would obviously not spend a huge amount on underfloor heating/new bigger radiators etc but rather go for an ASHP which is air-to-air. The running costs are lower and they are easy to install. You would need more handling units (the thing that looks like an air conditioning fan) as you would need one for upstairs and one for downstairs but the pipework is really simple and clean. Another problem with ASHPs can be the noise so I would make sure that I installed a quiet one. As to then heating the hot water for washing well another small ASHP connected to a tank. Yes I know, a lot of boxes with fans, but it really does seem to be the only answer as we move forward.

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                                #30
                                Going back to the original question we have this week had an EPC done on a one bed all electric house we rent out. It has a large 19 year old storage heater in the lounge and panel heaters in kitchen and bedroom and a blow heater in bathroom. They rated it D58. It also has cavity wall insulation, loft insulation and double glazing throughout. I told them we are going to replace heaters and they recommended High Heat Retention Storage Heaters (not new electric radiators) it would become D66. I didn’t think that was much of an improvement.

                                I am still completely bewildered about which heaters to choose as other people I’ve spoken to recommend fluid filled electric radiators. The electrician I spoke to says gel radiators are best. I am going round in circles.

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