Neighbour created 'new' drive and I think I can stop them...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Neighbour created 'new' drive and I think I can stop them...

    Hello,

    I rent a small cottage with an access drive down to an old double garage. I never owned the land that the drive was on but had a right of way or easement over it. This has been a popular feature with those I rent to.

    Last year a new neighbour moved in. They started using the access to get into their back garden rather than use their back entrance on the opposite side of their property. They kept squeezing between gaps in their hedge and became a bit of a nuisance so I complained on behalf of my tenant.

    I was called out this weekend because the neighbour has cut down all of their hedges and placed a hard-standing of concrete pavers alongside their house. When I discussed this with them as to what they were doing they told me they had bought the land with the right of way over it and were now going to use it as their own drive. This has upset my tenant who understandably is not happy going from the quiet of the countryside to having a large 4x4 truck revving up outside the window.

    When checking the records I've noticed that this neighbours car is driving over land alongside my cottage which is unregistered - I had maintained this for years (and as the cottage belonged to my grandfather he had done that too).

    A friend has suggested that as this is unregistered land I can fence and gate it to keep the neighbours car out as they will have no easement or prescriptive easement over it. I don't want to start something I might get in trouble for but at the same time can see an early way to prevent this from becoming an issue.

    Does anyone have any advice on this?

    Cheers,

    Robby

    #2
    I think you need to build bridges with your neighbour, not wind him up.

    If neither house has enough room for a car to pass to the rear, you need to accept he will have to come on your land, and you will need to go on his. Why don't you ask him the cost for him to pave your drive also, in the same materials, then the area should look congruent.

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks JKO,

      I think I've not fully explained the scenario.

      Neighbour has three entrances to his property and never had a RoW over the drive along the side of my property. An entrance point never existed there, they have just made one after purchasing the land They have a Y-shaped drive with two entrance points and one on the opposite side of their property from an unadopted council track.

      They now want a fourth!?!

      My tenant feels that this is an attempt to landlock him in his property. It is a deliberate attempt to cause a nuisance. I now think that they are unhappy with the fact that I rent my property and are doing their best to make it difficult for me to rent it. I've gone from complete quiet and singular access for my tenant to access the garage to the possibility of noise and interference with the right of way with no end in sight.

      I think that although I can claim adverse possession for this land dating back to my grandfather's ownership and maintenance of this strip of land for over thirty years, it has never been fenced. Rather than claim adverse possession now and get knocked back by the Land Registry I am in no rush. If I fence and gate it to deny the silly games from the neighbour, I can then wait another twelve years (or as long as it takes) until my claim is more likely to be successful.

      My understanding is that the neighbour cannot hold any RoW over unregistered land so I can claim it for myself and prevent their use of it. If they were able to contact an owner of the land I may have to remove it, but this is not likely with it being unregistered.

      They can then 'use' their land down the side of the house but are not able to drive cars down the side to cause a nuisance to my tenant. If I can do this it would give peace of mind to my tenant and prevent any further issues with future rental.

      I have read on other forums that if the neighbour attempts to pull down the gate they will be in bother?

      Understandably I need to resolve this situation but I would rather be in a position of strength. I've read how these things can go on. If I could discuss it over a bottle of whisky with them I would. He is not that type. I am going to have trouble regardless so I need to consider the best action now for the future of my tenant and the house itself. I am only in my twenties and want to rent this house until my retirement!

      Cheers Robby

      Comment


        #4
        Do they need planning permission foe what they have done?

        Comment


          #5
          Hi MdeB

          That's a good point I'd not considered. Is that a quick call to the local planning department? My tenant did say he was worried about the neighbours 4x4 squeezing past the garden's side gate when his boys are often running out to play...

          Cheers

          Robby

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Robby2001 View Post
            Is that a quick call to the local planning department?
            Probably.
            I've never done it.

            Comment


              #7
              It was worth a try!

              The suggestion from the council was that they can put hard-standing on their land. They do not need planning permission. I was asked to write up a full explanation and provide a map to post to them. I'll get this done as soon as. They were not concerned about the additional use of a vehicle.

              I think the idea of fencing the land seems to be the only way I can stop this.

              Comment


                #8
                You have no ability to claim adverse possession that I can see, because you tell us you don't own this land but do have a ROW over it.

                Only the true landowner can stop them doing thus, or place a gate.

                Have you read his deeds and yours? Total cost £12 so start there.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Robby2001 View Post
                  Hi MdeB

                  That's a good point I'd not considered. Is that a quick call to the local planning department? My tenant did say he was worried about the neighbours 4x4 squeezing past the garden's side gate when his boys are often running out to play...

                  Cheers

                  Robby
                  The tenancy between you and T. Does this make any reference to outside space? Or did your advert/agent do so?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    There seems to be more to this than meets the eye. Are you telling us everything?

                    So for years your tenant has been driving past the neighbours property to get to the garage, but suddenly the neighbour driving down part of the same route is a 'nuisance'?

                    They kept squeezing between gaps in their hedge and became a bit of a nuisance
                    How so? It's their hedge they were damaging, so why is that a nuisance to you or your tenant?

                    You appear to be arguing from a lot of assumptions, some of which contradict each other.
                    I never owned the land that the drive was on but had a right of way or easement over it.
                    My understanding is that the neighbour cannot hold any RoW over unregistered land
                    So you believe that you can have a RoW over the unregistered land but your neighbour can't have one? What makes you think this?

                    It also begs the question of who granted you a RoW if there is no owner of the land to grant one?

                    they told me they had bought the land with the right of way over it
                    So have you checked this? Who does own the land?

                    Understandably your tenant (and yourself) may not like the change, but things do change.
                    TBH I'm not sure just who is being the awkward party here, the neighbour or your tenant.

                    As others have said, check the deeds, get a property lawyer to check them and explain to you just who has what rights.
                    Simply throwing up fences and gates without checking that you have a right to do so is probably going to lead to big trouble.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Hello,

                      The neighbour who moved in last year never had access to the garage that my tenant uses.

                      The drive was owned by another landowner.

                      The cottage has an easement for pedestrian and vehicular access to the double garage at the end of this drive. The neighbours were using this drive without permission to walk down and gain access to their property between the bushes - this was happening at all times day and night.

                      After the tenant and I complained, the new neighbours bought the land that the drive is on. The RoW to the garage still exists. I'd suggest that this was a deliberate attempt on their part to be awkward. The tenant has said that this new neighbour does not want to live next to a rented house and will make life difficult for anyone who rents there. I have no reason to doubt the tenant as other villagers have had a series of 'incidents' with the new neighbours.

                      The drive is in the ownership of the new neighbour and the cottage has the RoW to the garage.

                      Before the drive begins there is a parcel of unregistered land. This is what I would like to take adverse possession of. If I control this it solves my tenants problems with the neighbour using vehicles down there. The neighbour still has three other vehicular access points!

                      No-one has granted me an RoW over the unregistered land. However I believe I have the evidence from my grandfather's ownership of the property and now mine to claim a prescriptive easement. The neighbours can't do this because they've only been there a year.

                      I have checked their claim and they do not own the land. It is unregistered.

                      So my original point was can I simply fence and gate unregistered land?

                      Cheers,

                      Robby

                      Comment


                        #12
                        As they now own the drive then I would say that if you fenced the unregistered land and prevented access to what is now their drive you would be in trouble.
                        (How many other drives they have is irrelevant in law).

                        I would also be trying to find out just what it says about your RoW on the deeds for the drive that they have now purchased, You are assuming that you have a RoW but you may find that you have no right to use it at all.

                        As an example there is a gated passageway to the side of my property, it had been used for years in the past by the neighbouring property (on the other side, various changes of owner) for access past my kitchen to their back door.
                        They assumed that they had a right of access - they didn't.
                        In the deeds it is an agreed access for a yearly payment, no yearly payment no access.
                        (And a large backpayment to be made before they can use it again; to my landlord not me unfortunately).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hello nukecad

                          I would think that if they can access their land (from their garden) there is no automatic right for them to expect to be able to access it over land that has been fenced. Can they access their land? - Yes. Can they access it as they would like? - No.

                          Just because they own the land doesn't mean to say that they own it as a drive surely? The drive only existed for the cottage's use in the first instance. Why would the law say that they are entitled to the same?

                          There is a clear covenant in the records that states the cottage has a RoW over that land.

                          Cheers,

                          Robby

                          Comment


                            #14
                            You are missing the point, what I, you, or anybody else thinks does not matter.

                            What the various deeds say, and what various laws say matters.

                            They now own the land thst the drive is on.
                            You say you have documented proof that you have a RoW over that land.
                            Fair enough.

                            But from what you are saying neither of you has a right to exclude the other from the unregistered land.

                            Ask yourself would you be happy if they fenced and gated it to stop your tenant accessing the garage.
                            That's what you are proposing to do with them, stop their access to their parking.

                            Even if you think you have a RoW over this unregistered land that does not give you exclusivity. It's not your land to bar people from.

                            You should sort this out between yourselves or be prepared for animosity and large legal fees.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Cheers. I'm not sure how I'm missing the point.

                              Land is unregistered. By beginning adverse possession it is 'mine' unless another landowner claims otherwise.

                              Neighbour may not like it, but not sure why legal ground exists for them to challenge this. First come first served surely?

                              If they were fool enough to buy land without considering how they can legally access it, why is that a consideration of adverse possession?

                              Unless there is an obvious point of law that only a legal professional can understand, it seems nothing can prevent adverse possession unless it's on a highway which it isn't.

                              Robby

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X