punishment for not registering a property?

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    punishment for not registering a property?

    Hi

    complicated question but I cant seem to find a answer online anywhere, I know its a crime not to register a property with the land registry when it changes hands but does anyone know what the penalty or consequences are? the changeover would have happened in 2000 but is still un registered with the land registry.

    #2
    Whilst I appreciate the suggestion that it is a crime not to register strictly speaking that is not the case here.
    There is no punishment from a registration perspective but it may cause problems come the time they wish to sell, mortgage or lease the property for example as a buyer is likely to query their ownership and ask the same questions as you have.
    There can be financial penalties from a SDLT perspective for late submission but you only refer to changing hands here so not too sure if it was a sale or a gift and therefore SDLT may not be a factor.

    It is also important to note that the Land Registration Act 2002 brought some additional triggers for first registration into play so the year 2000 may be relevant here if the change was not caught by the triggers in place at that time perhaps. Can you give an indication of the type of change perhaps?

    Comment


      #3
      Hi many thanks for the reply it would have been signed over to a next of kin aftet the death of the owner.

      Comment


        #4
        Probate solicitors (foolishly in my view) often don't register the property in the name of the person inheriting it. I say foolishly because this may result in the person thinking they have owned a property for many years and spent many thousands improving it, to find out there is a problem with the will when they try to sell the house.

        Comment


          #5
          If the change was essentially the sole owner dying and the next of kin inheriting then normally you would see the proeprty Assented to the beneficiary by the executor. If this had happened in 2000 then it should have triggered registration.
          However, and as JKO posts, that may not always happen as the beneficiary could be the executor as well and no actual formal change by deed takes place.
          The circumstances that existed may not therefore have been a trigger for registration although there are, as also suggested, advantages to doing so at the time although sometimes these are not relaised until the time the inheriting owner comes to wanting to sell, mortgage or lease the property.

          Comment


            #6
            thanks all so would 7(1) of the land registration act 2002 come into force then?" If the requirement of registration is not complied with, the transfer, grant or creation becomes void as regards the transfer, grant or creation of a legal estate"

            Comment


              #7
              Yes. The result is that whilst you would still be the equitable owner of the land, the legal owner would not have changed and what would have happened is that the legal owner became a trustee of a bare trust, holding the property for you (as the beneficiary).

              However, there are very limited trustee requirements on bare trusts which is why it is a bad idea not to comply with registration requirements. So this should certainly be changed over.

              In your case the deceased's executor became the legal owner of the land and is the trustee of the bare trust who holds the property on your behalf.

              Comment


                #8
                There are two distinct situations.

                The first is where land is unregistered. There is a large range of events which give rise to the need to apply for registration. If such an event occurs and registration is not applied for within two months or any extension granted by an order of the registrar, then the legal estate reverts to the person who made the transfer who is deemed to hold it on trust for the transferee. The sanction for failing to register is that you lose the legal title and have to go the expense of getting the transferor to execute a confirmatory transfer.

                The second is where the land is registered. On a transfer the legal estate remains vested in the registered proprietor until the transfer is presented for registration. There is no time limit and the transfer document remains valid indefinitely subject only to no one else obtaining priority and getting in first. There is no sanction as such, just the risk that if you do not apply within the priority period obtained by a search someone else will be able to step in.

                On the death of a sole owner, whether the land is registered or not, the land vests automatically in the deceased's executors or, if there are no executors, in the public trustee until a grant is obtained. (In the case of registered land it is one of the exceptions to the rule that the land is vested in the person whose name appears on the register.) Where the land is unregistered death is not an event which triggers first registration; however, an assent or other vesting by a personal representative is.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I do not think that a personal representative holding property as such holds it as a bare trustee for the beneficiaries. A bare trust arises when the person holding the property has done everything he ought to do and the beneficiary is entitled to have it transferred to him. That is not quite the case where property is held in an estate because all the property in an estate is potentially available to meet claims against the estate. However, where the land is unregistered if the personal representative has executed an assent and the beneficiary has failed to register within the time limit, when the legal title reverts to the personal representative he holds it as a bare trustee.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I love the idea of the Land Registry punishing people.

                    (Deleted as I will be visiting our Land Registry Office again soon, and I don't wish to end up in the Dungeon)

                    ML on Friday before a fun-filled weekend.
                    Refer Mad Regulators to Arkell vs Pressdram.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I think there is another exception to this. If the land is Common Land, the Commons Act of 1965 12(a) (which was later repealed) obligates the transferor of Common Land to register the transference with LR. So I assume that if it was not registered the conveyance is void.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
                        There are two distinct situations.

                        The first is where land is unregistered. There is a large range of events which give rise to the need to apply for registration. If such an event occurs and registration is not applied for within two months or any extension granted by an order of the registrar, then the legal estate reverts to the person who made the transfer who is deemed to hold it on trust for the transferee. The sanction for failing to register is that you lose the legal title and have to go the expense of getting the transferor to execute a confirmatory transfer.

                        The second is where the land is registered. On a transfer the legal estate remains vested in the registered proprietor until the transfer is presented for registration. There is no time limit and the transfer document remains valid indefinitely subject only to no one else obtaining priority and getting in first. There is no sanction as such, just the risk that if you do not apply within the priority period obtained by a search someone else will be able to step in.

                        On the death of a sole owner, whether the land is registered or not, the land vests automatically in the deceased's executors or, if there are no executors, in the public trustee until a grant is obtained. (In the case of registered land it is one of the exceptions to the rule that the land is vested in the person whose name appears on the register.) Where the land is unregistered death is not an event which triggers first registration; however, an assent or other vesting by a personal representative is.
                        -----------------------------------------------


                        re. paragraph 2. "The second is where the land is registered ................... ".
                        Time limit etc .
                        Does this apply to both Freehold and Leasehold land ?.

                        Thank you.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by PDML View Post
                          re. paragraph 2. "The second is where the land is registered ................... ".
                          Time limit etc .
                          Does this apply to both Freehold and Leasehold land ?
                          Yes it does. However, you do not want to be delaying getting registered.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            We made a mistake, We had some land which was Unregistered, we sold some of it off but we did not register with the Land Registry what we kept. The person who we sold some of our land to, then registers what we sold including some of the land which we retained. And of course the Land Registry would not have notified us as they would not have known who owned it.
                            Thirty years later when we were selling we had to the Register what we kept with the Land Registry and it was only then that the anomily in boundaries was noticed.
                            To try and get the boundary changed we had to get a Chartered Surveyor to do a measurement and he found that the Land Registry plan was inaccurate. (aparrently based on an Ordinance Survey Map) We then had to get a "Land Registry Compliant Plan" to submit to the Land Registry and our Solicitor submitted it.
                            We did get it partly resolved and the buyer bought it knowing there was a dispute.
                            Moral of story. Get it registered.

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