Indemnity Insurance- sale of possessory freehold land

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Indemnity Insurance- sale of possessory freehold land

    Hello there.

    Long story, but in brief:-

    I have aquired some land through the adverse posession procedure with land registry. Completely open so nothing dodgy. Every trace to find owners failed and land is landlocked.

    I have now obtained planning permission to build new property on this land though I need to cross a "ransom strip"

    The ower of the ransom strip is likely to want to buy the land with PP and develop it himself.

    All well and good.

    But as I only have posessory freehold to the land, I would assume it needs to have some insurance on it just in case the original owners turn up no matter how unlikely this will be.

    I have meetings with everyone concerned in a few weeks so just trying to clarify some things before hand.


    Who normally pays the insurance premium? Seller (me) or buyer/developer?

    If properties on the land are worth, say £450-500k what sort of premium is to be expected (apprecaite this would be rough!)

    Assume premium is one off?

    Finally, I assume the entire "profit" from the land (sales price - all fees etc) is liable to CGT?

    Anything else I need to consider?



    Thanks - and thanks for previous advice that has helped me get this far.

  • #2
    1. Indemnity Insurance costs normally fall on V (= you).
    2. Your solicitor can tell you what cover is available. Most firms have ready-to-issue policy pads with all the details.
    3. Example: On-Cover premium for cover of over £200 000 up to £250 000 would cost £190. Only a single premium is payable.
    4. However, for larger amounts, it would need to provide a one-off quotation.
    5. Also, its standard terms are for existing and continuing residential use. As development is involved in your case, again a one-off quotation is needed
    6. Finally, an up-to-date Statutory Declaration is usually essential so that the Insurer has full current details.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you Jeffery.
      I was expecting to hear a preimum of £'000s!
      I can cope with £'00s without getting too upset.

      Stat-dec was from May last year (awarded land June) so fairly up to date so no problem there.

      Need to get quote via solicitor I guess which I can't do really until I speak to the ransom strip owner (actually a company) and see how things lie.

      OK - its stored in the sales negotation bag!

      Appreciated.

      Comment


      • #4
        I recommend discussing with solicitor before (instead of) owner of ransom strip; tipping-off the latter might even preclude you from insuring.
        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi
          The owner of ransom strip has been involved from outset as they own a large amount of property the other side and NEED to give access.
          So they either need to sell me the ransom strip or buy the development land (or do neither)

          We have been in discussions since day 1 and they know the land title is how it is and are interested in it. (They were contacted from teh outset to establish if they were the original owners and to establish boundaries etc)

          So probably a little late for that!

          Discussion is just to "agree" a rough value where everyone is happy, then proceed through the formal channels

          Comment


          • #6
            OK- so less of a problem (but ensure that all discussions are explicitly subject-to-contract; and tell solicitor about them too).
            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

            Comment


            • #7
              OK - will do - thanks for advice.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by marmite View Post
                I have aquired some land through the adverse posession procedure with land registry.
                For how long have you been the registered proprietor (and with what class of title)? After either ten or twelve years of ownership with only possessory title, and unless anything adverse happens in the interim, you can apply for it to be upgraded to absolute title.
                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Title is posessory freehold
                  Granted 6 months ago - so can't convert and have no plans to stay around another 12 years!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Another point is that given the title is possessory it is possible that there could be some unknown restrictive covenants which could prevent building so you may need to get indemnity insurance for that also. The cost of this before development is a lot higher than after the building in question has been up for a year.

                    The insurers generally want to see if anyone emerges from the woodwork claiming the benefit of covenants when planning permission is applied for and then they will decide whether or not they will insure but I think the lowest premiums for pre-development polices of this kind is something of the order of £700 and for your proposed value it could be significantly higher.
                    RICHARD WEBSTER

                    As a conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful (provided it relates to property in England & Wales) but I accept no liability except to fee-paying clients.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It is unlikely there is anything restrictive on the land, but as you say its impossible to find out.

                      Are you able to clarify if these policies are one-off payments, and if an excess needs to be stored safely somewhere?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by marmite View Post
                        It is unlikely there is anything restrictive on the land, but as you say its impossible to find out.
                        No, it's not necessarily impossible! If your land does have a burden, another area nearby must have the associated benefit. You could always obtain corresponding copies of each adjacent area's registered title, to see what benefits (easements/covenants) appear to exist in their favour.

                        Originally posted by marmite View Post
                        Are you able to clarify if these policies are one-off payments, and if an excess needs to be stored safely somewhere?
                        All indemnity insurance premia are one-off, not annual [see item 3 in post #2]; no excess is payable unless the policy says so.
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          hi,

                          i read with interest that you've managed to obtain a property via adverse possession? if so, well done!

                          i'm at the beginning of that long process and wondered if you would mind having a chat with me about it? I'm just about to fence off a plot of abandoned land that i've been aware of for 15 years+ and want to ensure that i can prove demonstrable possession of the plot. how did you manage to do this?

                          i'd really appreciate any help that you can give.

                          thanks

                          scott

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by stonecold View Post
                            i'm at the beginning of that long process and wondered if you would mind having a chat with me about it? I'm just about to fence off a plot of abandoned land that i've been aware of for 15 years+ and want to ensure that i can prove demonstrable possession of the plot. how did you manage to do this?
                            Start by looking at HMLR's Practice Guides 4 and 5: http://www1.landregistry.gov.uk/publ...s/?pubtype=309
                            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Scott.
                              jeffrey on here has very good advice and has provided good information on numerous of my threads. He is an expert, not me.
                              But basically, to "claim" I proved usage for 12 years as, in truth, I used teh land for 12 years. I tried to claim on "day 1" even though I knew it would be rejected just to ensure I had letter from land registry saying so.
                              Then after 12 years, provided a full statatory declaration with full details of everything and all the research I did trying to find owner (all dated around 12 years prior obviously), along with the forms.

                              If you've only be "aware" of the land and not "tended" it or used it, then you can't claim. I was using the entire land "as my garden" for the full duration, had it fenced off and removed the fence between so used it as per own garden. Photos help and when the LR surveyor came round they took age of fence into account etc. If you intend fencing off now, maybe take photos, keep fencing receipts, and then just "tend" it and use it.

                              Maybe try my trick of trying to claim now even though it will get rejected. (They refund cheque!).

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              • Land reg tribunal ..quick question
                                Rosierees
                                If the respondant decides just before a hearing to settle before the hearing and we as applicants also agree what happens after the consent order is sent to the judge
                                ? Thanks...
                                20-08-2017, 11:05 AM
                              • Reply to Land reg tribunal ..quick question
                                Moderator2
                                Two related threads have been merged
                                20-08-2017, 18:58 PM
                              • D I Y Lease Variation.
                                Trevor62
                                Due to the purchase of a freehold (shared 50/50), We need to vary the leases to accommodate the changes for our own purpose. We have be told that there is a fee of 750 pounds per lease, this does not include legal fees.

                                How possible is it to do this process ourselves so to avoid legal...
                                07-07-2017, 09:45 AM
                              • Reply to D I Y Lease Variation.
                                leaseholder64
                                You will need to sign as both leaseholder and trustee for the freehold. I assume this will need to be done as a deed, so you will need to get the signatures witnessed. If there is a mortgage associated with either property, you will need to pay the mortgagee for approval and they may insist on a ...
                                20-08-2017, 10:50 AM
                              • Reply to D I Y Lease Variation.
                                Gordon999
                                You can have a meeting of the 2 freeholders and agree to terminate the collection of ground rent and whatever minors actions which you want . The items agreed by both parties would be entered into a document signed and dated by both of you as variations to the lease which you could send to Land Registry...
                                20-08-2017, 10:41 AM
                              • Selling empty property
                                londiner
                                Hi, I am selling an empty house without a tenant who moved out recently. The Estate agent told me the prospective buyer would live in the house. My solicitor I found online for this transaction based on a very competitive conveyasing fee sent me a contract to sign where the buyer is a limited company...
                                09-08-2017, 19:31 PM
                              • Reply to Selling empty property
                                ram
                                You can ask, but 24hours is irresponsible.
                                But it takes as long as it takes for a solicitor to VERIFY you or he has the funds, then throw the keys into the estate agent that sold the house.What is YOUR RUSH ? for 24 hours.
                                no need to answer as 24 hours is unacceptable.


                                ...
                                19-08-2017, 21:23 PM
                              • Reply to Selling empty property
                                londiner
                                Can I ask solicitor to set interval between exchange of contracts and completion to be 24 hours maximum?

                                And, are there any penalties for the other party if they fail to complete on set day? Can I call off sell if completion does not happen when it should and drags on?
                                19-08-2017, 20:32 PM
                              • Cancellations and the ramifications
                                APorter910
                                My nan has been in the process of selling her house for some time, all of the paperwork has been signed (I’m not sure which) and it’s getting close to her handing the keys over. She is looking to move into a smaller house, but needs to wait until everything is finalised until she can put an offer...
                                Gorvins conveyancing solicitors in Manchester are trusted residential property experts that have decades of experience when it comes to buying or selling homes.
                                17-08-2017, 18:37 PM
                              • Reply to Cancellations and the ramifications
                                Gordon999
                                Your nan should not hand over any keys until the money has been paid into your nan's solicitor. bank account
                                For the sale to proceed , there must be an exchange of sale contracts between buyer and seller solicitors and 10 % deposit paid. and an agreed exchange date.

                                If buyer has...
                                19-08-2017, 18:42 PM
                              Working...
                              X