Where's my lease? How do I get a clean copy?

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  • Where's my lease? How do I get a clean copy?

    My hard copy, originally drawn on January 20, 1984, is poorly photocopied and difficult to read in many sections. How do I get a new copy? it is titled H.M. Land Registry and gives the borough, (something not readable) number, and the property address. Is there a department and process there for doing this? How long does it take, what does it cost, and what do I need to show? or, simply, whom do I call to get the information? Just the general Land registry number?
    Many thanks.

  • #2
    Originally posted by ron77 View Post
    My hard copy, originally drawn on January 20, 1984, is poorly photocopied and difficult to read in many sections. How do I get a new copy? it is titled H.M. Land Registry and gives the borough, (something not readable) number, and the property address. Is there a department and process there for doing this? How long does it take, what does it cost, and what do I need to show? or, simply, whom do I call to get the information? Just the general Land registry number?
    Many thanks.
    1. Who holds original of Lease? As that's not with you, could it be with your:
    a. solicitors; or
    b. mortgagee (lender)?

    2. Lessor should have the Counterpart Lease. It may be willing to provide a copy, for a fee.

    3. If 'no' to both, try HM Land Registry. If (but only if) it has a copy, it will provide an official copy to you for £10 or £20. The exact fee depends:
    a. on format of what HMLR holds (i.e. electronic or hard copy); and
    b. on format by which you request it (electronic [website], form OC2, or letter).
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for that - very correct. I am the Lessor, too, and only have the poor copy. I contacted the Land Registry and have filled out form OC2. I will send it off to the correct office shortly, with a cheque for £20...

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      • #4
        I got mine recently from the HM Land Registry website, where I could download it for £3....

        Comment


        • #5
          I got mine recently from the HM Land Registry website, where I could download it for £3...
          You can't download a lease of £3 - only the Registry entries or Plan. I think that only those who subscribe as solicitors etc to Land Registry Direct can down load leases and in the majority of cases they are not in a downloadable format and a hard copy is sent.

          Another point that comes up is that the copy that is obtainable is an official copy which is basically a scanned version of a copy provided when the lease was first registered. In the days before photocopiers the copy supplied would have been a carbon copy which would be quite feint and would have got worse over say 40 years it was stored in the Land Registry archives - the consequent scanned version is sometimes totally unreadable. So you have to get hold of the original and send it the Registry and ask them to make a better copy!
          RICHARD WEBSTER

          As a conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful (provided it relates to property in England & Wales) but I accept no liability except to fee-paying clients.

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          • #6
            How on earth does one get hold of the original Lease? who keeps it? I have a copy of the Lease, but would the Land Registry know who sent it to them, or where the original is stored?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ron77 View Post
              How on earth does one get hold of the original Lease? who keeps it? I have a copy of the Lease, but would the Land Registry know who sent it to them, or where the original is stored?
              If you are the leaseholder, you must have the lease (or see paragraph 1 of my post #2)!
              If you are the freehold reversioner, this applies to the Counterpart Lease.
              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

              Comment


              • #8
                I am the Leaseholder, and co-freeholder. I simply need a newer, more legible copy of my hard copy (see my post number one!). I have written on OC2 to the Land registry for a copy, but it is undoubtedly a micro-film one, probably made from a copy, which could be as bad - or worse - than the copy I have. My question is, if this is the case, where can I find the original Lease so I can get a quality, legible copy made?
                Last edited by ron77; 20-06-2008, 07:11 AM. Reason: text

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ron77 View Post
                  I am the Leaseholder, and co-freeholder. I simply need a newer, more legible copy of my hard copy (see my post number one!). I have written on OC2 to the Land registry for a copy, but it is undoubtedly a micro-film one, probably made from a copy, which could be as bad - or worse - than the copy I have. My question is, if this is the case, where can I find the original Lease so I can get a quality, legible copy made?
                  Read (or re-read) my last post #7!
                  JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                  1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                  2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                  3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                  4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Do you have a mortgage on the leasehold title? When was this mortgage taken out and which lender was involved? If the mortgage is pre 2003 most lenders would have the lease. After that it is more variable.
                    RICHARD WEBSTER

                    As a conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful (provided it relates to property in England & Wales) but I accept no liability except to fee-paying clients.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes, I will ask the mortgage provider if they hold a quality copy, or original..many thanks

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ron77 View Post
                        Yes, I will ask the mortgage provider if they hold a quality copy, or original..many thanks
                        For a mortgaged property, the lease really ought to be held by mortgagee. If current one does not hold it, could one of your previous mortgagees (or solicitors) still hold it? Someone must!
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If this is a shared freehold there is a really live issue about what happens to the freehold deeds - because the counterpart (landlord's original copy) of the lease should be with them. This is a typical scenario which explains the problem:

                          A & B are lessees of the two flats in a converted house and buy freehold off builder who did flat conversion. A's solicitor acts for A & B in purchase of freehold and keeps the deeds packet containing the two counterpart leases and the freehold title documents. (Apart from the leases the title documents are of no significance now assuming the titles are all registered.)

                          A the sells his flat to C and B co-operates by signing a transfer of the freehold from AB to BC. A's solicitor hands over freehold deeds to C's solicitor. Nobody remembers to ask B about this (or perhaps they do but the problem always is whether they should be held by B's solicitor or by C's solicitor). So C's solicitor holds them.

                          B sells his flat to D and there's another freehold transfer BC to CD. Nobody thinks about the whereabouts of the freehold deeds. They aren't needed to effect a transfer at the Land Registry.

                          C then sells his flat to E - same thing happens and perhaps at this point there is a new fee earner at C's solicitors (or C uses a different solicitor). Nobody asks about the freehold deeds - because they are not thought to be very important because the titles are registered. On it goes over the years and by the time say J and K own the flats the deeds have been well and truly lost!

                          There are all kinds of variations on this kind of story but hopefully you can see how easy it is for the freehold deeds to get lost where the ownership of it is shared.

                          This can even happen to the freehold deeds of larger blocks of flats owned by a residents' management company. The solicitor who was used to buy the freehold by the company may not have much to do with things afterwards for many years and by that time the officers of the company will have changed and they won't know who the original solicitors were who hold the deeds!
                          RICHARD WEBSTER

                          As a conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful (provided it relates to property in England & Wales) but I accept no liability except to fee-paying clients.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Interesting points. Here is the update for my "Lease". I have called the Land Registry office, located the correct branch and phoned them. They have a copy on microfilm and will print and send a hard copy version for £20.00. I am waiting for that. If this proves to be a poor copy, I have located my original Lease with my mortgage company. They will make a copy of the original, hard copy, and send for £35.00. So waiting for the former, and may then go to the latter.

                            However, as co-freeholder (50%) should I also have a copy of the freeholder deeds? How do they differ from my lease, and who a) traditionally holds them and b) is most likely to hold them?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ron77 View Post
                              Interesting points. Here is the update for my "Lease". I have called the Land Registry office, located the correct branch and phoned them. They have a copy on microfilm and will print and send a hard copy version for £20.00. I am waiting for that. If this proves to be a poor copy, I have located my original Lease with my mortgage company. They will make a copy of the original, hard copy, and send for £35.00. So waiting for the former, and may then go to the latter.
                              Good! This is precisely what I posted before, several times, on this thread.
                              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                              Comment

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