Freeholder banged up abroad

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Freeholder banged up abroad

    My wife and I own the freehold (we are both named on the title) of our building with Mr A. Mr A is in prison abroad and possibly won't be willing to sign documents in prison. He own the lease of the one other flat in the building.

    We are selling our flat (with the value on the leasehold) and have agreed to transfer freehold too (the title shows we paid £130 for this in 2015).

    To transfer the freehold to the new owners, keeping Mr A on the title, do we need his signature?
    Or are the signatures of my wife and I sufficient for the TR1?

    The title contains the restriction: No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court.

    The freehold refers to us as 'Proprietor'.

    I understand that in some circumstances two of the proprietors can sign but I don't know when exactly.

    Thank you,

    #2
    Clearly the freehold is of nominal value only, presumably you have a 999 year lease at a peppercorn. If the best you can do is supply a transfer signed by the two of you, and the buyer can wait to see if the third proprietor resurfaces. I think each proprietor ought to sign but I would be interested to have the view of Lawcruncher who may have some interesting pearls to cast

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by flyingfreehold View Post
      Clearly the freehold is of nominal value only, presumably you have a 999 year lease at a peppercorn. If the best you can do is supply a transfer signed by the two of you, and the buyer can wait to see if the third proprietor resurfaces. I think each proprietor ought to sign but I would be interested to have the view of Lawcruncher who may have some interesting pearls to cast
      The lease is about 160 years with no ground rent - it has the value of the property that we bought it for 5 years ago.

      The freehold is currently being transferred for £1. If this was changed to nothing of monetary value would this help?

      Thanks - I'll await Lawcruncher then with baited breath, hoping there is some technicality that someone might get a result.

      Comment


        #4
        Also, if I was really stuck here, would being tenants in common like this be the same as owning it is a trust - could possibly arrange a section 25 power of attorney under the Trustee Act 1925 if so. The issue I fear is that he might not want to reveal a TR1 in a foreign prison that shows he owns a property/freehold abroad but might be willing to sign a power of attorney.

        Comment


          #5
          The share of a tenancy in common can be disposed of in a will, so there appears to be no reason why the half share in the freehold cannot be transferred if that was the share shown on the deed of trust created when the named parties were entered as proprietors of the freehold title.

          The transfer may require a TP1 form because it is a transfer of part of the registered title.
          i.e. The appropriate share owned by you and your wife, which is what will be transferred.

          Like the other poster I would also wait to see if Lawcruncher offers the high quality of legal advice as he so often does on this web-site.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by pilman View Post
            The share of a tenancy in common can be disposed of in a will, so there appears to be no reason why the half share in the freehold cannot be transferred if that was the share shown on the deed of trust created when the named parties were entered as proprietors of the freehold title.

            The transfer may require a TP1 form because it is a transfer of part of the registered title.
            i.e. The appropriate share owned by you and your wife, which is what will be transferred.

            Like the other poster I would also wait to see if Lawcruncher offers the high quality of legal advice as he so often does on this web-site.
            That's interesting. Another thing I've noticed is that when the TR1 was entered when we were transferees, it stated that the three of us were 'to hold the property on trust for themselves as tenants in common in equal shares' - It was also marked as 'not for money'.

            The TR1 form for the new transferees, including Mr A is states 'they are to hold the property on trust as tenants in common with 50% for the two people we were transferring the leasehold to, and 50% for Mr A.'

            I don't know if this helps anyone who might want to help.

            Comment


              #7
              I found this in Practice Guide 24. I don't know if this would apply:
              If the disposition creating the trust requires the consent of more than two persons to a disposition and it is not possible to obtain the consent of all of them, but two of the necessary consents can be provided, this is sufficient in favour of a purchaser (section 10(1) of the Trusts of Land and Appointment of Trustees Act 1996).

              Comment


                #8
                You should make an appointment with Land Registry Office to sort out your problem.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Gordon999 View Post
                  You should make an appointment with Land Registry Office to sort out your problem.
                  Land Registry aren't making appointments at the moment, questions are being answered by email. It's really not the same as talking to someone either on the phone or in front of you. They didn't answer my question but referred me to their website. Strangely the reason I contacted them was because the answer to my question wasn't on there.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If the joint owner is in overseas prison and you need another signature, I suggest you apply to the local Magistrates Court.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court.
                      That restriction does not apply if both you and your wife sign the transfer deed and include the statement that the new named couple will own 50% share as tenants in common with the other named person "Mr. A" who will continue to own 50% share in the freehold.
                      Two people signing the TR1 act as trustees, so that the restriction is not applicable, especially as the trustees are ensuring that the legal entitlement of Mr. A to his 50% share as tenant in common is secured by the wording used in the deed.

                      Comment

                      Latest Activity

                      Collapse

                      • Reply to Fee farm rent in " Freehold" house
                        by pilman
                        The first words used in that clause confirm that the land sold off in 1935 was no longer liable to pay any part of the fee farm rent because the seller accepted full responsibility to pay all of the rent, because he was continuing to retain the remainder of the land that was subject to the fee farm...
                        26-09-2020, 11:45 AM
                      • Fee farm rent in " Freehold" house
                        by zywiec
                        Hello
                        I made an offer on a 1 bed house which was accepted. I was sure it's freehold. Now I need to sign reservation agreement and found in document something like that.
                        Charges Register
                        This register contains any charges and other matters that affect the land.
                        1 The land in...
                        24-09-2020, 20:33 PM
                      • Reply to Fee farm rent in " Freehold" house
                        by Lawcruncher
                        A fee farm rent is another name for a rentcharge. Despite the word "rent" appearing no tenancy is involved. The rent is also charged on other land. The intention back in 1935 was that the seller would continue to pay the whole of the charge.

                        What you need to do is enquire if the...
                        24-09-2020, 23:30 PM
                      • Reply to Fee farm rent in " Freehold" house
                        by zywiec
                        Thank You for Your reply
                        It look like that there is possibility to buy out fee farm rent ( to be confirmed by conveyancing solicitor). Do You have any idea estimated cost of buying out grount rent ? 108f a year at this moment.
                        What's is Your view on house with ground rent?
                        Has it...
                        24-09-2020, 22:40 PM
                      • Reply to Fee farm rent in " Freehold" house
                        by Gordon999
                        You need to ask your conveyancing solicitor ( a local to the property) to explain how to understand and remove the fee farm rent ?

                        https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles...ur-ground-rent
                        24-09-2020, 20:52 PM
                      • Reply to Charges on Land register query
                        by Lawcruncher
                        I think that is something that the conveyancer who acted on your purchase should explain....
                        24-09-2020, 09:20 AM
                      • Charges on Land register query
                        by ZaraBUK
                        Apologies in advance if this has been addressed previously I am a novice here so please do point me to the post.

                        I have applied for my first re-mortgage the legal team acting on behalf of the bank have told me that there is a "Lease dated 17 May 1926 to William Thomas Little for 99...
                        20-09-2020, 12:06 PM
                      • Pre-Registraton Deed Wording Any Advice?
                        by first timer 123
                        Hi There,
                        If you have two adjoining properties with a conveyance of land that state:
                        ALL THAT messuage or dwellinghouse and garden with the rights easements and appurtenances
                        thereto belonging situate at (removed address)

                        With regards to the appurtenances, are they shared?...
                        13-09-2020, 18:45 PM
                      • Reply to Pre-Registraton Deed Wording Any Advice?
                        by Lawcruncher
                        If your land is unregistered, when you sell part of land comprised in a conveyance you have to keep the conveyance or you will not be able show title to the land you retain. A "memorial" or " memorandum" of a conveyance or other document is a note endorsed on (or if there is no space...
                        24-09-2020, 08:49 AM
                      • Reply to Pre-Registraton Deed Wording Any Advice?
                        by first timer 123
                        Just a quick follow up. When you say they have title do you mean they can claim adverse possession?
                        if they have already been granted the rights in deed from years ago how could they now now claim its their land.
                        Sorry if I am missing something it just confuses the heck out of me.
                        24-09-2020, 00:35 AM
                      Working...
                      X