Freehold transfer % question

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Freehold transfer % question

    I own one of 3 apartments in a building. the freehold of the property is owned / shared by the 3 apartment owners. One owner is selling his apartment and I have been asked by his conveyancer to sign the TR1 form to update the list of the freeholders. I noticed the buyer will have 2 names (presumably husband and wife) and and the transferees on TR1 is like this:

    myself, 3rd apartment owner, buyer1 and buyer2

    does this mean if the transfer is executed successfully, there will then be 4 freeholders so my share of the freehold will drop from 1/3 to 1/4? section 10 (declaration of trust) of TR1 has been left blank. would it be wise / safer to declare a trust and mention the share % explicitly?

    any help will be appreciated.

    #2
    Is the transfer expressed to be made for the purpose of appointing new trustees?

    Comment


      #3
      If you have 3 flats, you only have 3 shares.
      3 flats, 3 votes at meetings.

      You want a level playing field. One flat: One share certificate, one vote per flat.

      You can put 2 names on one share, but only the names that "own" the lease. But still only one vote per share irrespective of the number of names on the share.

      The share for the outgoing owner is returned to you, is cancelled, put in that flats file.
      You write a new share certificate and put the same number on the certificate as the one it replaces ( the cancelled one ).

      Think of it this way;
      Flat one has one share, flat 2 has one share, but if flat 3 has mother, farther and son~( as in my past dealings ) insisting they have 3 shares, you will be out voted EVERY time at meetings, service charges etc.
      You then get flat 3 having 3 votes against the other 2. They will rule the roost, and your problems will be insurmountable.

      3 flats with one share each flat.

      O.K. ?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
        Is the transfer expressed to be made for the purpose of appointing new trustees?
        hmm, I guess the purpose of the transfer is for the apartment together w the freehold. The TR1 form sent to me has both the apartment and the freehold title number (it does look a bit odd to me). the area that concerns me obviously is the appointing of the new freeholder (new trustee?) in the freehold and remove the seller.

        Comment


          #5
          ram This is a tenants in common arrangement, not a limited company.

          Comment


            #6
            I think I need to see the transfer. Can you post it blanking out personal details?

            Comment


              #7
              ram,

              We never had anything set up so presumably this makes us, the 3 apartment owners tenants in common? So is what you describe above kind of the common understanding? I took a look at the title file of the freehold avail in land registry and there is nothing specificially mentioned on how (%) the freehold is shared. it just says the proprietors are...

              I understand what you are saying though and it makes sense. I just want to be careful and not sign / agree to anything that I shouldnt since I am no expert on this freehold legal stuff.

              Comment


                #8
                Normally, for tenants in common, all the joint owners must agree to any decision about the freehold. If you don't have a trust deed, this will be the case.

                The problem that would interest me is where this happens to a second flat and you exceed the limit of four on registrations.

                Comment


                  #9
                  u mean in my case, if I sign and executed, then there will be 4 owners on the freehold?

                  your 2nd question did cross my mind also. or if I pass it on to 2 people in my will or something. Do you think the way the transferee list is written 'buyer name 1 AND name 2' is considered as one single owner/entity? the other freeholder's names are just separated by comma. as in:

                  me, 3rd free holder, buyer name1 and buyer name2

                  Comment


                    #10
                    It all depends on what the transfer says. Please see post 6.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      just pm'd you. It took me a while as the system complained about the file size.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
                        I think I need to see the transfer. Can you post it blanking out personal details?
                        I made one up based on the TR1 sent to me so anyone can see wo me worry abt forgetting to redact some detail. section 10 and 11 (declaration of trust and additional provisions) were left blank as in the original. any thoughts and advice would be appreciated.

                        Dropbox is a free service that lets you bring your photos, docs, and videos anywhere and share them easily. Never email yourself a file again!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I would suggest the third box in section 10 needs to be ticked, and the accompanying trust documents should show the desired proportions of beneficial ownership. If anything other than unanimous decisions are required, it should also provide details of voting rules.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            yeah, I know that will make the most sense. at the same time, I am trying to be mr nice guy and not introduce new items to hold up the neighbours sale. I guess if it has to be done, it has to be done.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              You could also suggest that only one of the buyers becomes party to the freehold.

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              • Fence on either side who own's which
                                ash72
                                Is there a golden rule, if the deeds to not specify, who owns and maintains the right or left hand side of the fencing? It's a mid terrace house, I always under the impression that the right hand side of the property was your's to maintain. I tried to look on an aerial view and there's five houses in...
                                15-10-2019, 14:55 PM
                              • Boundary dispute
                                Pilavas719
                                Hello All,

                                Thanks for setting this forum up.
                                I have been going through a boundary dispute since I moved into our current property a little background below:

                                We moved in on the 12th of July 2016 and the following day my next door neighbor tried to moved the fence 12...
                                14-10-2019, 14:06 PM
                              • Reply to Boundary dispute
                                Pilavas719
                                Thanks Lawcrancher, I have visited Jon Maynard's website I even had the pleasure of booking an hour consultation with him, he completely agreed that my neighbour was in the wrong. I have probably read everything online about boundary disputes already. I have come across this forum today and thought...
                                14-10-2019, 16:04 PM
                              • Reply to Boundary dispute
                                Lawcruncher
                                The following statements are usually true:

                                · If a house owner wants to build an extension and it would be handy if the neighbour's fence was in the wrong place and could be moved towards the neighbour, the fence is in the right place and the boundary follows the fence.

                                ·
                                ...
                                14-10-2019, 15:56 PM
                              • Reply to Boundary dispute
                                Pilavas719
                                A line drawn at the 50% mark on the title plan with no measurements has an accuracy of a meter, Since the title plan holds no ground to demarcate the boundary line render's it useless in my case. we are disputing 3.6 meter of land between our properties where I have 2.2m and my neighbour has 1.4m. ...
                                14-10-2019, 15:54 PM
                              • Reply to Boundary dispute
                                AndrewDod
                                Did the neighbour object to the trespass of by the fence previous to your ownership? How was this dispute resolved? Whilst boundary plans are not definitive, a line drawn at the 50% mark in relation to actual structures is at the 50% mark.

                                How do you actually know that the neighbour has...
                                14-10-2019, 15:44 PM
                              • Reply to Boundary dispute
                                JK0
                                You might want to craftily find out when your neighbour moved in. If the fence was in its present position then, I can't see he has a leg to stand on.
                                14-10-2019, 15:29 PM
                              • Reply to Boundary dispute
                                Pilavas719
                                I thought you can't base the position of a boundary on a title plan given the general boundary rule. Surely If this is what the LR practice you can't just move a boundary based on plans alone. If what you're saying is right I can still make an adverse possession claim and claim the land with proof that...
                                14-10-2019, 15:15 PM
                              • Reply to Boundary dispute
                                Pilavas719
                                Thanks JK0, The previous owner has given me a sworn statement to support this. I know the surveyor we will appoint will be RICS and follow certain protocols....
                                14-10-2019, 15:05 PM
                              • Reply to Boundary dispute
                                JK0
                                You need a statutory declaration from the previous owner (at your expense) that the fence has been where it is during his ownership. Then the clock is not reset.
                                14-10-2019, 15:00 PM
                              Working...
                              X