Freehold transfer % question

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    thx. I will make this suggestion and see what they say.

    Comment


      #17
      I believe there should separate LR title numbers for one " leasehold title for sale flat" and one "freehold title for the entire building"

      (a) The TR1 form for transfer of leasehold title shows name of " Transferor" ( seller) and "Transferee"(buyer 3A + 3B ) should be done by conveyancing solicitor .

      ( b ) The TR1 form for transfer of freehold title should show

      Item 1. Freehold title No..

      Item 3 "Transferor " is Name 1 , Name 2 , Name 3 and

      item 5 "Transferee" is Name 1, Name 2 , Name 3A , Name 3B.

      item 10 , tick 3rd box and add below share held by each paerson.

      Name 1 - 1/3rd share ( for flat 1)
      Name 2 - 1/3 rd share (for flat 2)
      Names 3A + 3B - 1/3rd share ( for flat 3 ) .

      Above is my suggestion only ( or leave out 3B ) or call Land Registry for advice .

      Comment


        #18
        The transfer is way off.

        Each section should be completed as follows:

        1. The title number of the freehold property

        2. The description of the freehold property

        3. -

        4. The names of all the current freeholders i.e the registered proprietors

        5.The names of the persons who are to be the new freeholders i.e. the purchasers and the current freeholders other than the seller

        6.Addresses of new freeholders

        7. -

        8. If there is no consideration for the transfer of the seller's freehold interest to the buyer then the box "the transfer is not for money or anything that has a monetary value" should be marked with a cross. If there is a consideration then the box "insert other receipt as appropriate" should be marked with a cross and the following added: "[The seller] has received from [the buyers] the sum of [xxx] for all the interest of {the seller] in the property."

        9. Do not mark any box

        10. Mark the box "they are to hold the property on trust". If there is a trust deed regulating the freeholders' interests continue: "upon the trusts declared by a [xxx] dated [xxx] and made between [insert names of parties]. If there is no such deed continue: "upon trust for themselves as tenants-in-common in the following shares:

        (a) [insert name of continuing freeholder A] one third
        (b) [insert name of continuing freeholder B] one third
        (c) [insert name of buyers] one third [as joint tenants] or [tenants-in-common in equal shares or otherwise as required]

        11. Insert the following:

        {The seller] wiith full title guarantee assigns to [the buyers] all his equitable interest and all other his estate right and interest in the property to [the buyers].

        This transfer is made for the purpose of giving effect to the appointment of new trustees.

        Comment


          #19
          Gordon999,

          yeah I agree. when I received the TR1 form from the seller's conveyancer, I thought it looked a bit funny (suspect it was prepared by a junor staff). After watching a vid from the land registry regarding the TR1, I realised it might not have been correctly filled in so started making further enquiry.

          thanks for your suggestion. much appreciated

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
            10. Mark the box "they are to hold the property on trust". If there is a trust deed regulating the freeholders' interests continue: "upon the trusts declared by a [xxx] dated [xxx] and made between [insert names of parties]. If there is no such deed continue: "upon trust for themselves as tenants-in-common in the following shares:

            (a) [insert name of continuing freeholder A] one third
            (b) [insert name of continuing freeholder B] one third
            (c) [insert name of buyers] one third [as joint tenants] or [tenants-in-common in equal shares or otherwise as required]

            11. Insert the following:

            {The seller] wiith full title guarantee assigns to [the buyers] all his equitable interest and all other his estate right and interest in the property to [the buyers].

            This transfer is made for the purpose of giving effect to the appointment of new trustees.
            thank you so much for the detailed explanation. My neighbour(seller)'s solicitor has come back and said they would add additional clauses to section 10. While I am waiting for the revised TR1, just want to understand if what you put down in section 11 is absolutely necessary or just better/more complete to be there? what will be the implications / downside if (11) is not there?

            Comment


              #21
              When it comes to ownership of land by more than one person you have to distinguish two different things. One is the legal ownership and the other the equitable or beneficial ownership. In the case of registered land (and ignoring exceptions not relevant to this thread) the legal owners are the persons registered as proprietors at HM Land Registry. The beneficial owners are the persons who derive advantage from the property. As here, the legal owners and the beneficial owners can be the same persons, but that does not mean that the legal and beneficial interests merge - they still exist as distinct interests.

              If one of joint owners wishes to dispose of his interest to an outsider and the outsider is to take his place as a legal owner, two distinct things need to happen for the job to be done correctly. One is that the disposer assigns his beneficial interest to the outsider and the other is that the disposer and the other owners transfer the legal estate to the outsider and the other owners. So, if property is owned by A, B and C and A is selling or giving his one third interest to D then:

              (a) A assigns his one third interest to D and any consideration is expressed to be paid by D to A

              and

              (b) A, B and C transfer the legal estate to B, C and D and consideration does not come into it.

              The two distinct assurances can be dealt with by separate documents, but it is convenient to deal with them in one.

              The TR1 you posted achieved neither (a) nor (b). My suggestions assume that it will all be done in one document.

              Without the first part of "my" part 11 it is not clear from the face of the document what is happening. From your point of view it makes it clear that you are not disposing of your beneficial interest. "My" part 10 confirms what the beneficial ownerships are.

              The second part of "my" part 11 is not strictly necessary, but makes it clear that you and the other continuing freeholder are only joining in the document for the buyer to take the place of the seller as a legal owner and registered proprietor. On reflection, the wording might be better phrased:

              The transfer of the legal esate of the property is made for the purpose of giving effect to the appointment of new trustees.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
                When it comes to ownership of land by more than one person you have to distinguish two different things. One is the legal ownership and the other the equitable or beneficial ownership. In the case of registered land (and ignoring exceptions not relevant to this thread) the legal owners are the persons registered as proprietors at HM Land Registry. The beneficial owners are the persons who derive advantage from the property. As here, the legal owners and the beneficial owners can be the same persons, but that does not mean that the legal and beneficial interests merge - they still exist as distinct interests.

                If one of joint owners wishes to dispose of his interest to an outsider and the outsider is to take his place as a legal owner, two distinct things need to happen for the job to be done correctly. One is that the disposer assigns his beneficial interest to the outsider and the other is that the disposer and the other owners transfer the legal estate to the outsider and the other owners. So, if property is owned by A, B and C and A is selling or giving his one third interest to D then:

                (a) A assigns his one third interest to D and any consideration is expressed to be paid by D to A

                and

                (b) A, B and C transfer the legal estate to B, C and D and consideration does not come into it.

                The two distinct assurances can be dealt with by separate documents, but it is convenient to deal with them in one.

                The TR1 you posted achieved neither (a) nor (b). My suggestions assume that it will all be done in one document.

                Without the first part of "my" part 11 it is not clear from the face of the document what is happening. From your point of view it makes it clear that you are not disposing of your beneficial interest. "My" part 10 confirms what the beneficial ownerships are.

                The second part of "my" part 11 is not strictly necessary, but makes it clear that you and the other continuing freeholder are only joining in the document for the buyer to take the place of the seller as a legal owner and registered proprietor. On reflection, the wording might be better phrased:

                The transfer of the legal esate of the property is made for the purpose of giving effect to the appointment of new trustees.
                great stuff. I had to read it a few times to understand it. thanks v much and really appreciate it.

                Comment


                  #23
                  You're welcome.

                  Comment

                  Latest Activity

                  Collapse

                  • Remortgaging to a BTL so much to pay!
                    Loftmonster
                    My wife and I are in the process of remortgaging our home to a BTL and buying a new home.

                    I've been in discussions with a mortgage advisor for the last couple of weeks. The purchase mortgage is straight forward but the BTL mortgage is proving a bit more difficult to decide upon. We...
                    21-08-2019, 00:59 AM
                  • Reply to Remortgaging to a BTL so much to pay!
                    loanarranger
                    What is the research provided by your broker in focusing on BM Solutions , they are no longer a lender who is the automatic 1st choice

                    Ask your broker why he didn't quote the following:-
                    Santander 1.39% 27 months fixed including Free Legals
                    Barclays 1.41% 27 months fixed including...
                    21-08-2019, 16:27 PM
                  • Reply to Remortgaging to a BTL so much to pay!
                    Loftmonster
                    Thank JP, yeah i was thinking we should fix for longer but if landlording doesn't work out we will have to pay big early repayment charges if we sell.

                    The lender our broker has recommended (BM Solutions) pays £300 casback on legal fees. Our solicitor is quoting almost a grand so thats...
                    21-08-2019, 08:14 AM
                  • Reply to Remortgaging to a BTL so much to pay!
                    jpkeates
                    Most BTL mortgage lenders will use their own solicitor for conveyancing at no (direct) cost to the lender).
                    You usually can add the product fee to the amount borrowed - on the basis that you hope the property value increases by at least that.

                    While I appreciate that landlording may...
                    21-08-2019, 07:48 AM
                  • Address wrong on Land Registry Title. A little rant. and request for empathy.
                    Logical.Lean
                    We are buying a property built in 1847, with some interesting history, and are somewhat frustrated by the both our own solicitor and the vendor and their solicitor.

                    Since having our offer accepted, on a house with no chain, either end, it has been 16 weeks, but the last 4 weeks have been...
                    06-08-2019, 18:50 PM
                  • Reply to Address wrong on Land Registry Title. A little rant. and request for empathy.
                    Logical.Lean
                    So eventually I phoned the Estate agent and explain that I'm now being told by our solicitor that the vendors solicitor had put in this application, but I'd like proof, if that were possible.
                    30 mins later she sent an email, which had an email.from.their solicitor saying it had been done on the...
                    20-08-2019, 09:50 AM
                  • Solicitors Negligence Question
                    Freddie thumb
                    I'm read these forums for a little while and just signed up to ask a quick question. I'm not sure if this is 8n 5he right place.

                    So I bought a property in 2008 and discovered that the Title to my property was defective in 2015. Basically there was a piece of land on the title of my property...
                    12-08-2019, 08:40 AM
                  • Reply to Solicitors Negligence Question
                    Lawcruncher
                    Are you saying that the Land Registry plan does not match the apparent boundaries of the land you occupy? If so, is the problem that you occupy land not shown as yours on the plan or that a neighbour occupies land shown as yours on the plan?
                    16-08-2019, 09:46 AM
                  • Missing Freeholder and Head Lease questions
                    deb_hyp
                    Hi,
                    I'm hoping one of you lovely wise people will be able to offer advice.

                    I own a leasehold flat and the RTM Company (of which I am a director) would like to purchase the freehold. The flat is one of 5 in a converted building. I've tried everything I can to track down the freeholder...
                    08-08-2019, 14:22 PM
                  • Reply to Missing Freeholder and Head Lease questions
                    Gordon999
                    The Land Registry records for the freeholder title for your address , will show name of current title holder. You can visit the Land Registry Online website and buy and download a copy of the freehold title for £3 by credit card..

                    If the title holder is a company, you can visit Companies...
                    12-08-2019, 07:31 AM
                  Working...
                  X