Resolution to trespass

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    #16
    Possibly. The real evidence though is on the ground.

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      #17
      Write to him advising you will be appointing a surveyor, to establish evidence. Ask him if he has any particular preference. Advise he will be responsible for the cost, plus the legal fees. Appoint a surveyor, then issue proceedings based on the surveyors independent report. I think you are asking for an order that he removes his wall and fence from your property, plus costs. Tis the only way.
      Other than giving permission for it to remain, with the proviso that the issue be remedied before either house is put on the market for sale. Could be risky because it might be you who wants to sell, and the property cannot be sold with an ongoing boundary dispute, and if he's awkward now, it'll be worse a few years down the line.

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        #18
        This a problem which does not need escalating - Mystic08 is fairly relaxed about it. Involving professionals before the problem is resolved will soon rack up costs with three noughts at the end. Better to go on a world cruise and forget the problem. Based on what we know, the neighbour is clearly in the wrong but that does not mean that any costs Mystic08 incurs are recoverable. They are only recoverable with prior agreement (unlikely to be forthcoming) or by court order. This does not want to get to court.

        A surveyor is not needed to say where the boundary is as that is evident. A lawyer is not needed as no difficult points of law are involved.

        What Mystic08 needs to do is to say to the neighbour something along the folllowing lines:

        You know you have nicked a piece of my land. Anyone can see it just by looking. I am not going to make a huge fuss about it, but I cannot let it pass. The bottom line is that the new fence is on my land and belongs to me. If you do not believe this go and speak to a lawyer and ask him about Quicquid plantatur solo, solo cedit ("whatever is fixed to the land belongs to the land"). If we cannot sort this out I will take the fence down and dispose of it. I am more than happy to sell you the land for [whatever] so long as you pay all the professional costs involved. As to that I am happy, if you are, for the same conveyancer to act for both of us to cut the cost. Alternatively, the fence must be moved to the boundary. I would reluctantly agree to accepting annual acknowledgements or licences confirming that you are on my land with my consent. That however will only be a temporary solution as sooner or later you will need to sell and that will be difficult with the matter unresolved.

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          #19
          Thank you Lawcruncher. I'm very tempted to say what you suggest to him but what if he digs his heels in? If I take the fence down and put it on his lawn, the low wall he has constructed which straddles the boundary is still there. I can get someone to demolish it but from what you say it is mine to dispose off. It will just be a pile of rubble and can't be reconstructed as the fence can be. One option would be to take the fence down but leave the wall. I could utilize the original concrete boundary posts and run fencing wire through them as per how it was when the house was built? That might encourage him to remove the wall himself and put the fence up in the correct position.

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            #20
            How far does the wall encroach into your land?

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              #21
              I would think about 20". I believe the correct boundary is the front edge of the wall. IMG_5816.JPG

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                #22
                Reading this thread, I thought you were talking about the just the raised bit with the potted plants. You mean the bit from where the grass ends?
                I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

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                  #23
                  Yes KTC it's just the raised bit. A very low wall consisting of two coarses of brick topped with paving stones. Anything you see in front of that is on his land. The gravel slopes down to a small stream. The old fence was aligned with the ones either side but on the image you can see the new fence is not in alignment.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by mystic08 View Post
                    I would think about 20".
                    That makes the practicality a bit trickier. However, you can still make the point that the wall and fence are on your land, belong to you and can be removed by you. The ideal resolution is for the neighbour to buy the land. Hopefully the possibility that all the work he has paid for could be undone will make him see sense.

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                      #25
                      Yes I agree. I will come back with an update when I can. Many thanks.

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                        #26
                        My trespasser will be receiving a letter saying more or less what Conveyancer suggested on 5 February, apart from the bit about annual acknowledgements. He can have the land if he pays for the costs involved or he can move the fence back to the boundary. Failing that I will remove the fence and wall.

                        I think he's just started another stint on his oil rig so goodness knows when I will get a reply but I'll report back.

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                          #27
                          My issue is still not resolved. My patience is running out and I'm unable to convince the trespasser we need resolution. Some weeks ago I found a fencer who is willing to take down the fence and place it on the offenders lawn. He suggested I ask the guy to remove the low wall so we can resite the fence in the correct position. He refused by text but said he would meet my husband who is a good mediator. He has put a meeting off twice and now won't respond to texts. He seems to think if he does nothing I will forget about it. I will not and and am going to arrange for the fencer to remove the fence. I'd appreciate some advice about the low wall. From the photographs I don't think the two courses of bricks are cemented in place but the paving stones on top may be. My understanding before my original post was that I can carefully remove someone's property from my land causing only minimal damage and place it on their land. I'm not sure we can remove the wall without damaging the components. However Lawcruncher has said whatever is on the land is part of the land therefore belongs to me. Could you clarify this for me Lawcruncher please if you're around ? Does that mean I can do what I want with the fence and wall? Is there some legislation regarding this I can provide the trespasser with at some point. Thank you.

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                            #28
                            The rule that anything fixed to the land belongs to the land is an old one and not enshrined in any statute. See here for an explantion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quicqu...lo,_solo_cedit The thing has to have to have been fixed with the intention of it being permanent. The fence is clearly intended to be permanent. The fact that parts of the wall may not be cemented in does not mean they are not permanent, but leaves rooms for argument. Even so, you can still move them as they are on your land.

                            Since the fence is yours if on your land you can do what you like with it - apart from put it on the neighbour's land without his consent as that would be trespass. There is though no reason you should not ask the neighbour if he wants the materials. In fact, given that parts are loose, I suggest it would be a good idea. It would also be a good idea to give the neighbour warning. I suggest a letter on the following lines:

                            This matter has now dragged on for far too long and must now be brought to a speedy resolution. If within seven days you do not move the fence to your own land or instruct a solicitor to act for you in connection with the purchase of the relevant land on the terms discussed, we shall instruct a fencer to remove the fence. In that respect you should please note that as the fence is ours we have no obligation to ensure the fence is dismantled carefully or to offer the materials to you. Once the work has been completed we shall expect you to meet the fencer's bill.

                            Such a letter does not of course require you to take any action, but hopefully it will stir the neighbour. As to offering the materials, I suggest that is left to later.

                            Whilst I am confident that the legal position is as I have set out, you should be aware that self-help can lead to difficulties. In particular the police, on the whole unfamiliar with the finer points of land, can get hold of the wrong end of the stick and see a crime where there is none.

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                              #29
                              Many thanks Lawcruncher. This is all extremely helpful. I will send him a letter saying what you've suggested. I have been to my local police station and they have confirmed it is a civil matter and they would only attend if there was an allegation of harassment or intimidation. Hopefully if the police were to be called no officer would weigh in on a claim of criminal damage by the neighbour. I will report back.

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                                #30
                                The owner of a house that backs onto a rental property of mine has replaced the fence but has taken about three feet of my garden.
                                I have only just seen this thread, which started with the above quote posted on 03-02-2019. Then there was a photo posted as #7 which I assume shows how the back of the garden of the "rented" property now looks.

                                After a 45 year career developing houses, as well as owning a number of tenanted properties, I have a few questions to ask mystic08.

                                1.Why are you at all bothered about this fence position?
                                2.Is the tenant refusing to pay rent?
                                3.Has the value of the Property been reduced now that there is new fence across the back of the garden used by the tenant?

                                As a professional landlord I have to say I found this entire thread a complete waste of time, although as an old retiree with plenty of time to spend on inconsequential matters I decided to present a pragmatist's thoughts on the matter.

                                You should ignore something that has cost you nothing but worry, rather than anything of consequence.

                                Any further action that requires you to spend money on this matter makes no commercial sense, which is all that a landlord should be concerned with.



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